Comedian and political commentator Bill Maher defended his decision to dine with President Donald Trump at the White House, arguing that engaging with the president is essential because Trump lacks fixed beliefs and is influenced by those around him.

During a July 15 appearance on NPR’s “Newsmakers,” Maher described Trump as a highly self-aware person who was far more normal in private than his public persona suggested.

“Many people hated that you met him,” host Steve Inskeep said. “Some people liked that you met him. I’m thinking about the conclusion you drew, which was that, if I can summarize, you found a sane person at dinner who plays a crazy person on TV, as opposed to an actual crazy person.”

Maher told Inskeep that critics who condemned the meeting were acting out of emotion rather than logic, dismissing their backlash as a competition to see who could hate the president the most.

“He is a crazy person in the extent that he definitely has a form of Tourette syndrome,” Maher said. “He just blurts out whatever is on his mind often. It’s funny, he’s both, at the same time, the most full of sh*t person and also the most honest.”

The late-night host rejected assertions that dining with Trump would elevate the president’s platform, pointing out that Trump already held the highest office in the country and could not be isolated.

“He’s got a lot of friends, you know,” Maher said. “He doesn’t read the briefing books. He does everything by, ‘people are saying.’

“Be one of the people ‘saying.’ Be one of those people who talk to him because he does look you in the eye and listen and he does change his mind sometimes because he has no fixed beliefs. They need more people like this, me talking to them, not less.”

According to Maher, the White House meeting resembled a “Nixon to China” moment, intended to foster direct communication instead of trading insults.

However, Maher said that Trump had since resumed attacking him.

“He’s back to hurling insults because I never once changed my tune. When I got back to work, and I never said I would. And the other argument is you’ll elevate him? Oh my God, what is he gonna become president?”